Now that we have been able to stage a bet that Z can finally win..... We all agree that the residential component is the key to reviving downtown. Better commuter service will be a huge help but this is going to be very difficult to pull off.
Any bank will look at the demographics and the surrounding housing and say why the hell am I going to back this project? That is what Berkeley found out. That is why I feel the new Housing Policy, or should I say change in Housing Policy is so important. We need to have a ground swell of marketing rate housing around downtown not more affordable housing , or should I say "work force" housing? Every day I drive by the old Odd Fellows building (next to the Mart) and the Hadley, do you think either of these projects help attract more market rate housing to downtown???
Think Eppinger is great but no way in hell does he sink his insurance reserves into this risk and no way in hell will a bank lend on it. The residential component needs a kick start!! Don't laugh but what about the Donald?? Trump Worcester.
Check out
Trump Miami
Trump Toronto
WRRB/Telegram District City Council Forum 10/18
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This forum is for all district council candidates; all candidates are here
today. Format: 14 total questions, 4 questions across districts (for all
candida...
6 months ago
16 comments:
Bill,
Financing information taken from the new website for CitySquare -
The Hanover Insurance Group, Inc. (NYSE: THG) is the principal financial investor in CitySquare. Based in Worcester, The Hanover is a leading regional provider of Property and Casualty insurance products for individuals, families and businesses, and one of the top 35 Property and Casualty insurers in the United States.
Here is the link for the website - http://newcitysquare.com/index.html
Dave
Principal and sole investor are two different things. They have already put up alot of money and are taking alot of risk.
No way will they want to go it along bank rolling the residential side too. Stock holders would go ape s---.
Bill
Bill:
I like your thinking, but you are missing a real estate developer right under your nose ... Chiofaro in Boston. He has been a thorn in the side of Tom Menino to build housing towers in Boston. Maybe he can be coaxed out this way? Nothing he would love to do more than build the tallest building in New England to flaunt in the face of Tom Menino...
Harry T
Worcester,MA
Just Google this for more details:
Chiofaro+Menino
Chiofaro developed International Place on Boston's waterfront.
Harry T
Worcester,MA
It will flop without the residential component! Hanover knows that and will make sure that market rate housing is part of it.
harry
I agree. Was just using Trump as a big name, but that is what we need. In order to attract a Trump or Chiofaro, we need to show them Worcester is changing.
Dave, I agree with you 100%. The point you are missing is that there is no way Hanover will go forward on the residential side on their own and no way a bank will bankroll them.
In order for the residential side to do anything they need a big name partner.
Bill
These ins co's and banks invest heavily in real estate and securities and also act as bankers with money to lend.
I sure hope it does not happen and and i do not think it will ( wishful thinking?) but if the stock market and bond market ever take another huge hit, you can rest assured commercial lenders will be even less inclined to lend.
This notion that these compnaies are deep pockets is a bit of a misnomer. Anyone ever hear of State Mutual Life Assurnace or its subsequent name change to Allmerica....GONE....!!!!!!!
AIG anyone?? The bailout boys
IMO, right now behind the scenes CITY II is like a bookie looking to spread around the risk on a big bet he is taking. I.e. they are trying to line up other players as either lenders and/or equity partners.
Demonstrate to any developer that they can make competitive, risk adjusted returns developing residential housing in downtown Worcester and you shall have that which you seek.
It's as simple as that....
Eric K.
Worc., MA
Harry, that (almost) tallest building idea was tried by Sophan in the mid 80's with that white pinnacle he built adjacent to Sally's and opposite what was then the welfare office in the old Brocklemens market building at Main & Madison
It was built with...........yup you guessed.......lotsa gob'mint loans/dineros
And you guessed it....the place went to foreclosure after a few years.
And you guesssed it, it was supposed to be (planned) market rate housing . It is (or was) full of Clarkies and/or Seccion Ochos, last I heard. Maybe thats where they go when they get bounced from the Valley by WHA?
Also another market rate project on a smaller scale at Lancaster and Elm Sts got in hot water about the same time and it too was built about the same time (late 80's RE boom). I heard iwas converted to rentals, but I believe that are more in the nature of market rate rentals. Luckily that place kept its head above water b/c back then one of the owners had te deepest pockets in Worcester. No one was even a close 2nd. Not sure what the status of that place is now.
Folks, bottom line is that market rate housing did not work in Worc 20+ years 9 note above 2 examples) and in the interim all Worc has done is increase it's indigent population exponentially via CDC's and the like.
Sooooooo...........please tell me why it should work now??
Which comes first guys......... increased rail service or the M.R. housing.....kind alooks like increased rail service....OK so almost we got more rail capacity............now it has to utilized/ more utilized. Stay tuned.
Bill,
With your thinking that there is no way residential will be a part of it without a big name partner, then why would Hanover even start CitySquare? I think we can all agree that it will be another disaster without the development of a downtown neighborhood.
Jahn,
The building you speak of at Linden and Elm Street is market rate condominiums and from my vantage point doing well.
TY, David. I kinda had the same impression of the place, although I was a little more familiar with it's status years ago.
So folks...................next on the horizon a City of Worc loan guarantee to secure MR housing for City Sq?????
WtH , the taxpayers have already paid to raze the place and the old CITY Sq Berkely and I assume the new City Sq were given a parking garage on the public dime. Rumor has it the deal was falling apart back in 2007 when Berkley wanted to make the job open shop. McMurray was not pleased with that so Berkely said OK fine give us a parking garage for free we'll make it a union project. Quid pro quo for all except the taxpayers.
Of late I am getting concerned that Mc Muarray and Coupe deval aRE GOING TO get RE -ELECTED. Ouch. Worse yet that could end up meaning McMurray could end up governator in 2015.
Steve Belkin, another Boston area developer looking to build... was suppossed to build the 1000 foot 'Tommy (Menino) Tower'...
They are out there, Bill ...you are right...
http://www.bostonherald.com/business/real_estate/view.bg?articleid=1152862
Harry T
Worcester,MA
Jahn:
Did you see the big National Guard sendoff at Foley Stadium last weekend? Quite impressive ... had it been a bunch of pajama people packing the stadium rather than National Guard members and their families, would Foley Stadium... for that moment with all the pajamas in the house... then be known as JAHNkee Stadium ?!?!?!?!?
:P
Harry T
Worcester,MA
If any of youse guys were in Hanovers shoes, would ask for loan gauranteees from teh gubmint?
I am thinking Id look at all teh handouts for low income housing, The Hand It Over Theatre, and who knows who or what else and then say to my self....WTH not for me?
i DONT KNOW IF MENTIONED THSI MONTHS AGO, BUT ANYONE EVER THINK that the city got Hanover to step in as a quid pro quo for as yet unannounced gub'mint handouts? Wouldnt surprise me.
Does Joe Obrien have more interest in dev'ing Main South or city Sq?
How many Jobs will JOB(s) save or create with this task force? and who will track the results.....sorry but thsi just another Univ Partenship type deal........lotsa T&G ink results but thats about it
Trump Chicago...
http://www.trumpchicago.com
Harry T
Worcester,MA
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