Same Time Next Year
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It’s been nearly a year since I wrote about the problems that come from
having 11 bosses who are not on the same page about anything, as well as
suggestion...
4 months ago
December 27, 2009
Best Buy Greendale
I was in their Christmas Eve buying this new netbook and talked to the kid who waited on my about the Millbury move. He told me that they were definately moving but was not sure what they were going to do in Greendale. Told him that if they move to Millbury, like he told me that they were doing, and they have Solomon Pond Mall, there was no way in hell Greendale would stay open. It would make no sense. Although not official, it looks to me that it is extremely highly unlikely that Best Buy in the Greendale Mall will be there in 6 months,.
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29 comments:
WHOLE FOODS MARKET PLEASE !!!! ...are you hearing me MS Jacobsen ?!?!?!?!?
:D
Harry T
Worcester,MA
The Greeendale mall opened in 1987. There was no Solomon Pond or Blackstone. My HS pal who worked for Simon for years told me in the mid nineties that they knew that competition would eventually do this small (even by '87 standards) mall in. To last over 20 years in the brutally tough mall business is pretty good. "Don't blame Worcester"
Bill, I was told by an employee that they were going to move the Greendale Store to Lincoln St where the old Holiday Inn was. I am going to check on that tomorrow.
Assuming you are referring to the shopping plaza opposite Lincoln Plaza, the last store in that space was an Iandoli's and before that it was a Iandoli's offshoot call Food Warehouse or something like that. My guess is that space has been empty 15+ years. I think maybe the Dollar Store in there now took part of the old market space.
Last Summer I saw a crew working on the roof at that empty building. I think they were either re-roofing the place or playing with HVAC systems??? My guess was a new roof.
Rumor has it, inventory shringage was a huge factor in eventually shuttering the grocery store at that location. Prior to that Lincoln Country Club at that same site always had problems with golf balls always disappearing off the fairways in broad daylight. The alcohol flowed sooooo freely at the old Lincoln Country Club. The place never had a liquor license. Many cops golfed there. Twas a real blue collar golf course....all 9 holes of it....replete with natural bunkers made of ledge....
The line up of businesses in there now is a reflection of the areas general demographics....Bobs Disc. Furn.......Dollar Store...Hometown Buffet...........H & R Block Taxes..... take out Chinese(?) & others....$3.99 16" inch pizza's, etc, etc
Hope I am wrong, but i just cant see an electronics goods store in there.
who is going to support it Harry?
we have a city load of landlords who can not find quality tenants-any good or bad landlord will tell you this ..we could not support Tatnuck Book Store..can not support Diamond Auto...the piano company left and you want a Whole Foods to come here in this economy...remember the supermarket that recently closed in the city??
CitySquare is only perhaps moving ahead because of a lateral move (my new saying) not because of a new entity looking at Worcester favorably....lets get real on who you want here and who will come here Harry (T)to Much Wishing!
Don't blame Worcester? give me a break Anon....this city is on life support and you are still offering it a smoke....this economy has been in the tank for a year plus Anon..WooTown has been sinking for decades..this evaporation of business has been a long process not a recent phenom because of a current economy or what "Simon Say's" 20+ years ago!
Best Buy to Lincoln Street?? Why leave the Greedale Mall to go to Lincoln Street. It is the old Circuit City location in Millbury.
Do I blame Worcester for this? Kind of. Worcester Fashion Outlets had Sports Authority, Saks and Media Play amongst others and all have moved out of the City to the surrounding towns. Why?
In the end it is the people. The City of Worcester Housing policy has not only saturated us with low to mod income housing but has pushed many retailers out of the City of Worcester eroding our tax base.
Harry:
Sorry, but I agree with Paul. Have you been to the Greendale Mall lately? Whole Foods is a great store but no way will they go to the Greendale Mall. A huge dollar store/Family Dollar would be more like it.
Paul, you are right.... This, the evaporation of business, has been a steady trend. The ironic thing is that I do not blame Economic Development, but Neighborhood Services.
In the end it is the people that make up the City of Worcester. You can the businesses to the City of Worcester, but if you do not have the people there the businesses move.
We need to change the whole focus of Neighborhood Services from a developer of low to mod income housing to making attracting market to high end housing their number 1 goal.
Gentlemen:
You are looking INWARD at who would support a WHOLE FOODS and not OUTWARD. 290 & 190 meet right there. Simple off and on access from the highway. No need to stay in the city. So residents of the following: HOLDEN, STERLING, BOYLSTON, WEST BOYLSTON,SHREWSBURY,GRAFTON, LUNENBURG for starters. Those were the outwards. The inwards would be Greendale & West Side for Worcester ... the colleges , too. There would STILL be plenty of business for both Living Earth & Whole Foods ... each has a different niche. That location serves East/West bound traffic in addition to North/South traffic as well. All the folks who pour into UMASS and St. V's for work could shop to/from their way to work.
Think outside the WOrcester box, folks! Whole Foods is clustered around 128 ...the only other one in the state is located in Ludlow, Mass ...are you telling me SPRINGFIELD is supporting that store?!?!?!?! ...No the North/South ...East/West access of that location is.
The defense rests...
Harry T
Worcester,MA
It would be safe to assume the Montvale District would support a Whole Foods, too (I had to throw that in there to get Paulie & Jahn's blood pressure up!!)
:D
Harry T
Worcester,MA
...and don't forget the captive audience/target market they have at World Gym right next door, either! 500-1000 health enthusiasts right next door to the place! ...with Worcester Fitness, another 500+ members right around the corner.
Harry T for head of economic development , please!
Harry T
Worcester,MA
...correction on the Springfield store, it is in Hadley, not Ludlow ... my point is still the same though... they are catering/drawing from Springfield's suburbs and North/South ...East/West highway access ...easy on, easy off..
Harry T
Worcester,MA
In spite of all the comments from the others, I agree with Harry and think a Whole Foods Market would be a perfect fit for the Best Buy location. There are more than enough West Siders to support a Worcester location. Besides if we don’t start thinking outside of the box, we will be doomed to dollar stores, etc. Let’s finally bury the Spag’s mentality in Worcester.
As to why the stores seem to be leaving Worcester for the surrounding towns…It is not just because of demographics. It is also the city’s archaic 2-tiered tax system. If I recall correctly from the Lechmere days, the Best Buy location at Greendale Mall is not owned by the Mall but is a separate entity. If that is still the case and I’m not sure it is they save a boatload of money currently paid out in taxes by moving to Millbury.
Think about something for a moment, Auburn also has a 2-tiered tax system. It is not as high as Worcester’s for commercial property but they still pay an unfair burden. When the Shoppes at Blackstone Valley opened, Barnes & Noble left Auburn for Millbury but I never hear anything mentioned about that relocation.
As for CitySquare, yes Paulie it is a lateral move by UNUM that will kick start the project and get it moving. Would I like to see businesses from outside the city be the catalyst, of course I would.
And from what I am hearing, they are planning to aggressively market the former UNUM site to startup companies in the biotech area. Not only is UNUM’s jobs retained in our central business district but we have the opportunity to add more high wage earners downtown. And if the housing component of CitySquare gets off the ground at the right time, maybe some of these new employees will want to live in downtown Worcester.
I have said this many times before but it bears repeating, when CitySquare finally comes to fruition there will finally be urban synergy in Worcester. The Canal District, Shrewsbury Street and downtown will be one unified very urban area. Unlike many of the cities that have been mentioned as role models for Worcester, we have never had a true united urban core that could tie together all of the pieces of the good things that are happening.
Worcester Fashion Outlets had Sports Authority, Saks and Media Play amongst others and all have moved out of the City to the surrounding towns. Why?
>>you will not get an honest answer Bill...the City Council can gang up on a new property owner like they are doing at 1 Montvale but when was the last time you saw them gang up on the numerous bad landlords and tenants that surround my properties, your properties or any other good landlord in this city??
The numerous CDC landlords get everything they want and a landlord like you or me that bring real commerce into the city get squat...this is something Green Eyes should be looking into not where Best Buy is moving to..that is a done deal...another political sport game out here.."why things are moving not what we can do to retain!"
in all due respect Dave..I have been thinking outside the box for years....and have put my own money on the table when I do the thinking - no matter how small it is it is more than most in this city of outside the box" thinkers!
Lot of "outside the box" types out here who have yet to reach into their pockets....your comment reminds me of folks who call themselves "progressive democrats"..as if the rest of the Dems are not for progress...of course all on this blog thread would love to see a Whole Foods there but there needs to be some thought in the process...you have no stats to state that the west side can support a Whole Foods...you are assuming mate.
We are still talking about a west side that has been reluctant to discuss your next paragraph regarding the duel tax rate....and I use the word duel correctly in this discussion:>).....the west side does not see the benefit of business because they do not want it on their side and who cares about the rest of the city..they have a burb mentality and as long as Green Eyes or any other Pol wants a job then what the west side wants is what the rest of us get...they won't discuss honest tax rate debate but they will pay eight bucks for a box of raisan brand:>) Right!
BTW.....Living Earth biz has been down the past few years...
"You are looking INWARD at who would support a WHOLE FOODS and not OUTWARD. 290 & 190 meet right there. Simple off and on access from the highway. No need to stay in the city. So residents of the following: HOLDEN, STERLING, BOYLSTON, WEST BOYLSTON,SHREWSBURY,GRAFTON, LUNENBURG for starters."
>>so you think this demographic is just going to jump up and say.."hay, wooTown now has a Whole Foods..lets go shopping"
check out the parking lot of Home Depot Harry (T)oo much tea today...one of the least supported in New England
Shrewsbury has a Trader Joes..I certainly like your thinking Harry (T)..but until this city starts adressing the real reasons for it's decline then all this is is "fantasy supermarket"
Senor Jahn and Wild Will Randell have articulated the issues for quite some time now and I have jumped on the bandwagon...but only after 13 years of going no where as an investor in the city and then an additional 7 years as an investor and resident...
Signman and now WWR have been involved in my personal agony over 224 Chandler Street....going on 19 years now for me...1 Montvale gets resolved in weeks:>)
just because we want biotech business does not mean it is coming here in boatloads Dave...Providence is now going after it...how many folks do you know that will want to work down at the South Main location? We can't get any of our leaders to live in this neighborhood yet all of the scientists of the World will want to work there..
Build and they will come only works so much....how many no-lo income neighborhods do you know of around MIT and Kendall Square???
How much prosperity has come to the Clark neighborhood? Again, build it and they will come only goes so far...the Chevralier purchase on Water Street again hinges on a no-lo component....it all goes back to my beef with allowing these CDC's to rehab all of the beautiful corner lots in D4...vacant shitehole house still sits boarded up across from it on Piedmont and behind Beacon Auto Sales....the huge brick mill building still sits vacant years later across from it at Chandler & Piedmont...
Until this city has an honest debate about it's urban renewal and who is going to lead it (perhaps this is happening right now with the firing of Scott Hayman)then it is going no where - unless of course Boston & Greater Boston explodes again and instead of moving south more biz and the midle class move to Central Mass...this utopian thought process out here that if you house the poor in $350K flats..then the middle class will come back and so will business is foolhardy..it aint worked anywhere else and it aint gonna work here...am I the only one who notices those that push this utopian thought do not live anywhere near their work - well except the incoming Mayor:>) Who I bet only gets visited when he has winning parties at Gilreins and a police detail is outside!
Both Harry and David are smoking too many left handed cigarettes this holiday season. (David, I'll discuss my blood pressure beef later today...it goes back to yesterdays paper) I hope the resulting munchies dont cause you guys to put on any weight.
FWIW, the Greendale Mall was expanded When TJX or is it Marshalls went in there and that was about 10 years ago. New parking was also located under that new addition.
Road access to & from that mall is a real circle jerk, but prob. not enough to deter a Prius operator from getting to their local Un-Wholey Foods Outlet....problem is we are short the req'd threshold number of Prius and Clown Car operators to support such a venture.
David.....market the soon to be old UNUM site to biotech????....surely you jest??.......we already have so called biotech parks in Worc (2 of them?) that I believe have had for rent signs in front of them since the time that raptors walked the earth? Actually 3 biotech "parks" if Pharamsphere ever gets off the ground. Query ...why wasnt Pharamsphere "pushed" into a biotech parksite?..........manufacturing zoning issues??
Sorry Harry, but Greendale has always been kinda blue collar/middle class and frnakly there is less green there now than there was 20 or 30 years ago. I wouldnt be surprised if there are even Seccion' Ocho's in GreenDale now. i.e. there are more people who are discetionary cash funds challenged ...unless they are in need of a hit from their local illicit pharmcy ....then they always seem to find the discretionary cash by visiting their frienldy local box store for a few 5 finger discounts. Also 190 and 290 are both 3 digit interstates connector highways......we need 2 digit interstates in Worc but Eisenhower says we're 60-65 yrs too late
David I been around long enough to recall when Worc Center was going to be Worc re-birth (1971 a la Mr Mahar)......then it was the Centrum (1982 a la frank Sinatra)....then it was the Worc Center's 1994 make over to the Fashion Outlets ( a la Judy Light)....then it was Union Station 1996(?)....then it was St.V's new hospital 2001(?)............and now it's going to happen by destrying a 38 yr old structure and replacing it ...a.k.a. a Lateral move???......let's just build a new Trumble Sq....and David my fine feathered friend.....the Canal District is still in the pipe dream stage and somehow I think the money from Washington is going to be a loooong time in coming........given our current nationwide finacial condition...so long that Mr Letcher's patience may be tried. If Union Station couldnt unite downtown........???
OK then, do a little reconnaisance on trash days in Greendale, Montvale historic & West Side ...see how many Trader Joe's & WHole Foods bags are being used for paper recyclables.
Need I say more?
Harry T
Worcester,MA
May I ADD, as I have mentioned here in the past.......I also lived through 3 or 4 re-makes of Lincoln Sq AND The Common. To what end? The bathrooms are now Handicap accessible and Lincoln is more cah friendly
New real estate accomplishes nuttin' except pols who step forward and claim responsibility for it even though in many cases it was all built by private money.
The latest insanity is that new PIP shelters in diff locales are going to change something.
It's the people, not the buildings that HAVE to change. Witness Holy Croos and Clark University with buidlings that are over 100yrs old and they still manage to have students who get fine educations in ancient buildings........then we have the Worc School dept that some how thinks that razing 35 yr old school buildings and repalcing them with new ones is somehow going to raise MCAST & SAT scores.
Dunderheaded Dolts....!!!!!!!
Jahn said,
"David I been around long enough to recall when Worc Center was going to be Worc re-birth (1971 a la Mr Mahar)......then it was the Centrum (1982 a la frank Sinatra)....then it was the Worc Center's 1994 make over to the Fashion Outlets ( a la Judy Light)....then it was Union Station 1996(?)....then it was St.V's new hospital 2001(?)............and now it's going to happen by destrying a 38 yr old structure and replacing it ...a.k.a. a Lateral move???"
All of those projects you mention were stand-alone projects. None of them in and of itself would have "saved" Worcester despite what was being said at the time. But I may add that except for Worcester Center/Outlets Mall which I think I can safely say that all of us reading this blog would agree was a colossal failure, we would be even worse off without the others that you mention Senor Jahn. And I would add MCPHS into the mix which never would have happened downtown if it wasn’t for St. Vincent Hospital and the persistence and vision of Mr. Moynihan.
On the other hand, CitySquare will be a project encompassing several city blocks and reuniting our downtown core. And as I stated earlier, uniting two very vibrant districts (Shrewsbury St. & the Canal District) with downtown. That is why I am so bullish on this project.
Can anyone tell me what the 10th best stock for the year 2009 was?
http://finance.yahoo.com/retirement/article/108458/ten-best-and-worst-performing-stocks-of-2009?mod=retire-planning
Oh yeah...WHOLE FOODS...these are the kinds of companies we want to come here!
"You play to win the game!!" ...Herm Edwards
Harry T
Worcester,MA
Sports, like business ...you play to win...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I
Harry T
Worcester,MA
David says:
"On the other hand, CitySquare will be a project encompassing several city blocks and reuniting our downtown core. And as I stated earlier, uniting two very vibrant districts (Shrewsbury St. & the Canal District) with downtown. That is why I am so bullish on this project"
David, David, David,.....my amigo............you seem to be saying that b/c a project encompasses many city blocks ....it will therefore not be a failure.am I understanding you correctly??
Worc center was built over quite a few city blocks and by your admission it was a "collosal failure"
Medical city also took a couple of city blocks.........and it too was and is a failure as far as moving downtown forawrd.
Sorry i dont see how City Sq will unite anything. Maybe I am missing somethign here?
Good knight
Dave Z....what exactly is joining Shrewsbury Street..downtown..and the Canal District going to do?...they are three distinct neighborhoods...Shrewsbury Street is standing on it's own...hopefully the Canal District will and I would hope downtown would if anything ever happens...right now the demograqphics of the Canal District and downtown is 60%+ below the poverty level..city stats - where are these folks going by the way:>) To Wild Will's neighborhood down on Canterbury Street..to my neighborhood on Chandler Street?
I hung out with Harry (T)wo Godzilla Rolls on Saturday night..I walked to El Basher from my house..had some fun and then walked to Baba Sushi and then home...may have popped into EVO if time but had to much fun at the first two places...don't think we would have walked to Gilreins..same distance from downtown to Shrewsbury Street or Kelley Square...do you think folks will bar hop from Shrewsbury to downtown to Canal District????? Davis Square stands on it's own...Ball Square stands on it's own..Union Square stands on it's own..North End stands on it's own..ChinaTown stands on its own...you telling me that WooTown can not have districts stand on their own with a connection??
Will the city sell us out and push on us all that are displaced from the areas you want connected - is this why we have so little pull at city hall to move forward?? Any word on this GreenEyes?
Mayor in waiting Joe O'Brien was on the News tonight..he sounded sincere and one can only hope that he does well but I am still amazed at how much the city is laying on his shoulders and he is laying on himself...he mentioned that he plans to be in Boston a lot pushing our legislators for more...this bothers me as I would rather hear him say he will be in the offices of Fidelity pushing for them to move west instead of south to Providence....we do not need anymore government largesse..we need good paying private sector jobs....he also spoke about lifting up our numerous under performning urban schools - finally a city councilor publicly speaking about our "numerous" under performing urban schools..how do we do this tho if the urban core keeps getting poorer?? More money??? Jump in here Ms. Novick..I feel you will offer up an honest answer
UNUM moving lateral is not good Dave Z..it just gives a hard on to those who have fallen in love with the CitySquare concept (we want it so bad we do not care how it happens now as long as it happens)...one of my neighbors told me that he had a few cafe owners interested in his space in the end he rented to yet another church..same with UNUM telling anyone that they will try to sell their space to biotech firms....their space may sit vacant for years like a lot of space downtown has..and thru good times nationally and locally.
Until I see our leaders start intelligently talking about attracting new business into this city then these few moves forward are all moot in my own humble opinion and the City Manager puts in charge of our urban renewal someone/s who actually has/have a resume on urban renewal - graduating from Clark and working for the Pleasant Street Network is not enough for me...having a urban core that is 60+% below the poverty level is just a mini India.....
Bill:
You really stirred it up this time, eh?
Harry T
Worcester,MA
Actually I think it was you & I Harry that stirred the pot. Even Jahn thought we were smoking something. :)
intelligent conversation can be scary Harry T...
Paulie, dont go thinking that Joe Obrien is going to be any kind of massiah.
Please remember Mcgovern gave us deval and he's about to give us JOB & McGovern-care.
JOB is 100% in bed with city employees.........they are the ones responsbile for his strong showing.
JOB sould also remember hes merely a city Councilor and has zero executive authority and if he overstesps his bounds too much he'll be hit with a suit of 10 taxpayers just like Levy was almost hit with when Mulford was the high sheriff in town.
Frankly, I am scared that JOB is a pawn in the next play for a strong mayor.
I read recently that Mcgoversn lives in washingotn alsmot 24/7/365and that his kids go to school in washington DC.........anyone know if thsi is true? I they do goto scholl in washington DC, i wonder if they attend public of private schools..
Was it Raybo Mariano that was a school committeman and a city coucilor and a mayor in Worc and who sent his kids to private school........justifying it as "a personal choice matter"
Do private schools give condom-olgy courses?
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