Answer: TIF
- Hanover
- 184 Main Street--across from new courthouse
- City Square
Each of these TIF's locked the current assessed value for a stipulated period of time, averaging ten years. Why not make the whole downtown district a TIF zone and copy what they did in Philadelphia to attract investment?
19 comments:
Bill, you're over the top with this lock in of assessed value............more than me and the leaning salt shed......!!!!!!!
Assessed value is only 1/2 the equation.........ya got to look at the tax rate as well.............and what if assessed values drop as they will for sure for FYE 2011...???........do these lock ins allow for drops in assessed value as opposed to just rises in assessed value???
And what about those who have been paying the tax on the full assessed values for decades.........where is their tax break........all they get is the Bird from the the commies on the city council..............and I dont mean Mark either.
We give The HAnd It Over Theatre millions in out right subsidies....now we gotta lock in their assessed value for 10 years................shame on you........!!!!!!!.........
Get the McGovernm riff raff off of city hall plaza and downtown Worc may have a chance.
How about we lock in the fire dept wages for the foreseeable future..........sleeping all night warrants a 2.5% raise annually ...?????.....and when they finally awake they go out and underbid local area contractors on home improvement projects.......geeeeeeeeeesh.....
Jahn:
I do not agree with the subsidies for the Hanover or for the low income housing.
Jahn, we need to expand our tax base and nobody is coming to invest monies in Worcester on the commercial side with the current dual tax rate, except highly subsidized developers of low income housing. The only way they are coming is to give them a break on their property taxes and short of a single tax rate, the only tool we have is a TIF.
I pay my taxes on the full assessed value right on Pleasant Street and I applaud these TIF's. In the short run, it will not bring in any added tax revenues but it does rbing jobs, companies and money to downtown. In the long run, it expands the tax base which will eventually lower the tax rate.
In the end the answer is that we need to have a single tax rate, but short of that the TIF is the only tool we have to make us competitive.
Bill
What do you think the single tax rate should be? I could live with $13.00 max but anything more than that will see an exodus of property owners .
Jon
I'm not sure how it is calculated but I believe that officials know what the single rate would be if it were adopted.
I can't recall any recent figure being mentioned because the City Councilors were obviouly not interested in anything but the lowest residential rate.
What ever the single tax rate would be, you would need to phase it in over ten years.
In the meantime TIF's can be used to expand the tax base to lessen the burden on both the residential and commercial property tax owner.
Bill
Anonymous, the residential rate now is 13.50. so you're paying 13.00+ now. How can the combo rate be lower than the current?
And the rate for Fiscal year 2011 will be even higher. It has to be b/c assessed values will drop like a lead balloon......and then we'll have mathematically challenged councilors telling (lying to us) us how they dropped tax by dropping peoples asssessed values.
The merry go round to Worc's bankruptcy is just loaded with lotsa horses (sh++) and too many horses a++es.
Jahn:
As our commercial tax base keep eroding the residential assessed value drop, you are right. Rates will have to go up
We need to expand the base. Again over the long haul we need to have a single rate to end this battle between residential and commercial property owners.
Bill
Bill
Bill, maybe the best way i can put it is why are those (You & I included) expected to pay more so the new comers can pay less (or nothing).
Those of us who have been paying for years s/b the ones to get the breaks.......not to use a union analogy, but those with the least seniority always get the crappy deals..........in Worc the taxpayers with the most seniority (been paying the longest) always get the crappy deals on their taxes.
Once again the city has it Bass Akwards. Not unlike, the city of Worc hiring the least qaulified and/or those with the longest rap sheet and/or those with the largest family tree that's on the city payroll. Completely opposite to anyone with any sanity would do things.
My Momma once told me not to hang out with boy named Bobby b/c Bobby was bad and if I ended up with a police record I'd be unable to get a job...........well welcome to Worc 2009 where it's all backwards.
Jahn:
In business sometimes you invest in something and you get nothing in return right away. It takes some time to get your return. That is what a TIF is.
On the other hand lets do it your way not give a TIF to the Hanover (don't get into the other free money they got because I agree), City Square and 184 Main Street. Telling you right now two of them don't happen, maybe 184 Main Street still goes forward.
What do you think your residential tax bill will look like in ten years if we can not get projects like these off the ground today?
Bill
By the way I would like to add two things.
First I have had people ask me who Jahn is??? In fact I even had a couple people if I was Jahn. I am not. Hope people see that by how much we disagree on this issue.
Second, is it not kind of fun to have to exchange?? Just because we disagree on an issue I do not say things like Jahn you are being "negative" or you are not a "team player". Disagreement can not only be fun but productive.
Bill
whats 184 main St?? 370 is old guaranty bank building 184 has to be lincoln sq area ?? ........no wait Lincoln Sq would be # 1 main st??
across from new courthouse
I thought the Hand It Over TIF was negoitated when the project was 99% complete..........after we gave them zillions of dollars in subsidies already ...............at least that's when i saw it in the paper.............maybe I was late to the party.
City Sq IMO would eventually go forward with or W/O a TIF.......these TIF are analogous ( on a much smaller scale obviously) to a municipality building a pro sports team a facilty on the taxpayers dime......only years later to realize the municipality got the shaft in the long run................did we give the Outlet Malls a TIF, too??................plus we basically gave Berkely a free parking garage too.....was it it to keep labor peace & Tif Murray happy ?????
Unlike the latest internet porn, TIF's never seem to have a happy ending [g] unless you consider the Worc taxpayers getting screwed to be happy ending. A happy beginning with Judith light....mmmmm..... ya ok....but a happy ending....NOT
We also vehemently disagree on where an access road s/b ....if it ever comes to pass.
Wild Will wants it out in Leicester w/a Rte 56 Mass Pike tie in.
I want it in Worcester....Hope Avenue area..........
Anyone who is even sumwhat perspicacious wood clearly sea that hour righting stiles are different....except we both to tend to drop an occassional word here and there.........adn I transpose individual letters all the time. See what happens when you're a public vs. an S.J. guy. I did get in to Notre Dame back in teh day...but the nuns would not hear of a boy attending that venerable institution of catholicism that was 100% goils.
Why don't we run the airport access road through all the subsidized housing in Main South/South Worcester? Kill two birds with one stone, no?
Jahn:
You can not get screwed in a TIF unless at the end of the TIF the property is able to be switched to a non-profit.
Not sure if it is legal or not, but we need this language in any TIF. Maybe even to the point in the TIF if it transferred to a non-profit they need to pay the property taxes for a stipulated period of time.
Bill
Kudos to anonymous and an "Atta Boy" too (or an Atta girl)......let's start with the creme de la creme ...the four relocated 3 deckers on Hollis St at a cost of $700,000 each...altho I must say they are very nice looking...but even I could be good looking if $700,00 was spent on me.........
I think we got screwed on the outlet malls TIF in that they didnt create/add the required number of jobs?????
The TIF's s/b like the landlords who advertise a free month of rent..........teh free month of rent is the last month not the 1st........ i.e. city will hold your TIF'ed real estate taxes in escrow until your 10 year (assumed) TIF is up and you have performed your duties COMPLETELY
Some of These companies that want TIF's are like the reputed Main South Hookers..........they want to get paid (taxes reduced) before they achieve their objectives(s). Berkley gets Demo money ($25M) before they even have the building erected (no pun) never mind erected and occupied.......
BTW....speaking of getting paid for performance.......i wonder..........does South Worc Neighborohood center have to refund their development fee b/c they havent completed their task.. i.e. getting pajama people into low income housing?.........e.g. their Cambridge St project.......what is it 3 of 11 units occupied and now they wanna build 24 Moore units??? Gimme Shelter!!!! Should the fee be paid only after the fact and be tied to 100% occupancy of the newly constructed PPP (Pajama People Property)
Did i read in yesterdays T&G that the new thing in Union station is about to open soon???
And didnt the citys annual report list that facilty/business as a newly opened business in 2008? Or am I getting some Union Station businesses confused?
When I saw it on the list that was on the blog here awhile back i questioned how a bid that was even assigned to the winner bidder until Sept....possibly be constructed and opend in 2008?
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