I was going through some of stuff and I found this from April of 2004:
1) JetBlue's hub is in NY. All they need to do is provide daily jet service to and from Worc to New York. From there you would be able to connect with direct flights around the country.
2) JetBlue is doing this already in Rochester, Syracuse, Burlington and Buffalo
3) JetBlue is looking to do this also into Manchester, NH and Portland, why not Worcester, the third largest city in New England?
4) JetBlue has a relationship with MassPort and we may be able to “leverage” this relationship to get JetBlue to fly into Worcester.
5) JetBlue's target market is smaller markets like the Worcester
6) JetBlue recently has made a sizable investment in a fleet of jets with 100 seats to service smaller markets like Worcester.
7) JetBlue is innovative and aggressive and may be the type of airline to give Worcester a chance.
8) JetBlue could get naming right to our empty airport or even the Centrum.
9) JetBlue can tap into a large market of college students who fly home, retirees who go to Florida and a Latino population that travels to Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic.
Some three years later JetBlue has made a huge commitment to Boston with numerous daily flights to their hub at JFK as well as many direct flights throughout the country. Most recently we have even seen JetBlue start a code-sharing agreement with Cape Air to feed Boston. Why were we not included in this??
During the summer of 2004, Tom Moore even called the strategic flight planner, Dave Ulmer and convinced him to visit ORH. We have had JetBlue on the radar screen for three years, had the strategic flight planner visit ORH, have spent over $200,000 on a consultant to recruit/retain an airline and missed a code-sharing agreement between Cape Air/JetBlue.
Recently I flew to Tampa. Between the drive time and out-of-pocket expense (80) I would have paid 149 round trip on Cape Air between ORH-Boston to get on a JetBlue flight to Tampa. Imagine how much easier it would be to check in at ORH on a Cape Air flight!!!
WRRB/Telegram District City Council Forum 10/18
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This forum is for all district council candidates; all candidates are here
today. Format: 14 total questions, 4 questions across districts (for all
candida...
6 months ago
30 comments:
Bill, unfortunately we are not a Blue City........we're going to be a Green City....and ....God only knows how we're going to pay for it.
Green Hill, Green Island, Greendale.........GREEN CITY.
But we're a city with a $500M (?) budget and we have no money in the bank. $500M spent annualy and we cannot even put aside 1% or $5m for a rainy day fund, yet we're now going to wizz it away on being green.
Isnt a functioning airport a more imp. priority than being green or for that matter having an open Blackstone Canal?
Completely misplaced priorities
Boy, some people have all the answers. It's a shame they would rather rant anonymously behind a computer screen than step forward and suggest a better approach in a public forum. A real shame.
Or maybe they're a disgruntled public servant who can't get anyone behind their ideas, so instead they post to blogs thinking somehow their ideas will take life from there. Interesting, and ultimately unsuccessful, way to promote your ideas. If they feel strongly enough, they should jump on a board or commission and get their voice heard that way.
Dave:
I was thinking the same thing. It would be great PR for JetBlue to give ORH a chance.
Never mind spending on ads in our newspaper, take the remaining balance of of our DOT grant monies and start the code sharing with Cape Air out of ORH.
Tom:
I do not get the impression that Jahn works for the City. In fact I would bet the complete opposite.
Putting aside Jahn's sarcasm, he usually makes some pretty good points.
Bill
Bill, they should get on a board/commission if they think their ideas have true merit even under scrutiny. Less people respond to sarcasm displayed on a blog, good points or not. And aren't you trying to sway the masses?
Just got off the phone w/ Manager's office. Rules/Regs comm. w/b discussing adopting Manager's idea of allowing current employees to serve.
Cape Air out of ORH: Eric Waldron has explained that their equipment does not make it profitable enough for them. Cessna 402s would need too much fuel for the trip and would be unable to carry enough paying passengers consistently, even in the summer.
RE: JetBlue: do you have Dave Ulmer's number?
Tom:
Cape Air is flying from Hyannis, Martha's Vineyard, Provincetown and Hyannis to Boston via a code-sharing agreement with JetBlue. I do not think any of these airports have grant money sitting there to even give to JetBlue.
Why does it make sense economically for these four small airports to fly into Boston, but now Worcester???
You make a good point Bill. Didn't realize Cape Air had an agreement w/ Jet Blue.
The question that comes to mind is: Why isn't it profitable. The towns Cape Air is flying from sound like smaller markets than Worcester.
Couple the fact Cape Air has started code sharing with JetBlue with the fact, as Dave mentioned, JetBlue could use some positive PR. Then add the DOT monies we have and MassPort is our partner where JetBlue has a large presence--why has this not happened????
I would definately pay $149 for myself round-trip. Basically this is our initial recommendation, but instead of the Embraer 190 flying us to JFK, we have Cape Air flying to Boston.
They fly to boston from those locations because that is where the population and the people with $$ are located -plain and simple. They do not carry a lot of fuel to fly there. Less fuel (weight);more passengers. I do think there is a population market in Worc. County, but they would have to charge too much.I am sure Worcester has talked with them over the years. We just don't know it!
tom:
we do not have people in Worcester that will fly to Boston to connect with JetBlue???
Tom, we are not talking about flying to Nantucket or the islands but flying to worcester.
Folks its probably unprofitable for Cape Air to fly from ORH b/c the landing fees and fuel costs are too high and as someone else said; Hyannis, MV, & Nantucket customers are folks who on average have more money than Worc's customer base.
Bill, what is code sharing? Shuttling airline passengers via short haul trips?
Guys if we had a Cape Air here doing these short hauls to Logan, aren't we cannibalizing the potential customer base for a comm. carrier that could carry 100+ passengers (our ultimate goal) to vacation destinations or do we boot Cape Air out ..."IF"... we ever get a national carrier again?
Jahn:
Code sharing means I could be able to go on the JetBlue website and book a flight from ORH to Boston then Boston to Tampa last month.. Although I would have flown ORH-BOS on Cape Air, you would not have known the difference.
The best part is that I would have saved $80 on parking, the driving (at least one hour each way) and the avoidance of the long lines at Boston since I check in at ORH???
For arguement's sake, if Cape Air were full from ORH to Boston, how can this be bad???????????? Can you technically canibalize when you have other flights???
By the way if these flights had an incredible response, don't you think Jet Blue would one of the Embraers here???
Interesting points. Spent a few minutes searching Cape Air . Looks like they fly Cessna 402. Entered Cessna 402 and according to Wikipedia and Rising Aviation.com it's a twin engine aircraft that carries a crew of 1-2 and up to 9 passengers and a fuel capacity of 102 gallons with a range of 2,360 km.
Tom makes a good point that it may not be cost efficient, and they may already been approached and refused.
Bill also makes a good point--what would it take to make it efficient.
You have to walk before you can run.
9 people paying $79 each way comes to $711. Even 6 at $474. These flights would be profitable.
Sorry folks, I couldn't pass up a straight line like this; feel free to throw tomatoes after the punchline... "The people stuck on JetBlue planes during the St. Valentine's day ice storm... were they suffering from JetBlue balls?!?!?"
Sorry....too good to pass up!
Did some quick math. 102 gallons divided by 2360 km come to about 23 km per gallon. If Boston is approx 65 km that comes to approx 3 gallons used. At $4 a gallon fuel would cost $12 per flight.
Steve, fromm your post, I am understanding the cape Air Cessna's range to be about 1500 miles with 100 gals of fuel or about 15 MPG or only 3.5 gals of fuel from Worc to Boston (prob more b/c takeoffs eat up lots of fuel?). Is this correct?
Do we know what it costs in landing fees at ORH?
I would bet that Cape Air Aircraft would not hold 6 or nine passengers to/from Worcester and be able to carry the fuel necessary. Thus the cost wold be much higher per person.
Also, why would I fly from Worcester to boston to connect to Jet Blue? Very convoluted!
Worcester would waive land fees... In addition we have money from the DOT grant for marketing.
I am no aviation expert but I find it hard to believe that Cape Air would invest in planes that can not fly full passengers from ORH to Boston.
Vineyard Haven is approx 104km (65 miles) to Boston.
I would think it would have to be profitable for Cape Air to operate their aircraft.
Right now when I fly I drive to park TF Green or Boston, park my car, wait in long lines, etc.
If I could get dropped off at ORH, take two seconds to check in and walk on to my direct flight from JetBlue at Boston, I would do that every day of the week.
I'm down with that !!!
Harry Tembenis
Worcester, MA
Guys I think this is getting off the beaten path here.
Let's look at this like business .
What's our idea for a busines model? I would say it has been targeting vacations travelers flying no frills discount airlines directly to the vacation destination.
Now granted, we aint been too successful at that. The reasons probably are numerous.........BUT......this is no reason to take our eye off our real objective.
We should not go grabbing for anything that comes down the pike, like shuttle service to Logan.
We should stay focused on our original goal. I have seen too many businesses get in trouble b/c they didnt stay focused on what their bread & butter should be.
What business to we want to bein and waht can we bring to the party that the competition cannot?
Great question above, but I don't know who asked it. Once I know who I'm talking to, I could have a conversation.
we have two goal from the beginning. First direct flights to popluar leisure destinations.
Second were shuttles to a major hub. Jahn, I think a shuttle to Boston via Cape Air with a code sharing agreement with JetBlue will be awesome.
What does the door to door Worc Airport Limosine Shuttle service get for a one way trip or a round trip to Logan? I just heard last Sunday its $70 one way??? BTW I drove to Logan at 700am last Sunday Morning. Zero traffic and it was exactly an hour.
I can answer the question about how much a shuttle to Boston costs, since I'm in the business, but it all depends on where exactly one is traveling from. And does one mind going by other peoples' houses to pick them up on the way? And adjusting one's schedule so there is enough time to do that? Why not leave the driving to someone else who can dedicate their time and car to one customer?
I was dropping off at Logan last Sunday AM too! We could have had a coffee, but anonymity makes it kind of tough. Too bad.
There are a couple of advantages to having a air shuttle to Boston.
1. No long lines checking in At Boston. Same security measures at Worcester but less waiting. Gate to gate service.
2. Less driving time home. You're in your own backyard when you arrive home at Worcester.
I asked about the the airport limosine service b/c i reaaly wonder what the diff is in time & Geo. Washingtons vs. an air shuttle to Logan from ORH?. Let's assume for the sake of discussion that one is 15 mins away drive to ORH? Thomas, you'd be the best one to answer this. I'd would have had coffee with you, (only if you paid!) but from Logan I had to head south. BTW , The Greene I-95 exit was also exactly an hour from Logan.
Also keep in mind the size of teh potentiall market. Those further to the east, south and west of Worc have the closer Logan, Greene & Bradley alternatives
According to the experts, we have a potential catchment area of 2.2 million travelers. This is a "known", as opposed to an "unknown".
You know how long it takes to drive a car to Logan. I know it takes 20 min to fly ORH -> OWD @ ~160 kts., so let's add 5 mins to that. Figure another 5-8 mins to get into the pattern at Logan, or more, depending. (That's another consideration). Gate access, making the switch to your flight, another 30 mins. Cost = ~$60.00, I'd guess.
If you want a coffee, I'll buy. Let me know when's a good time.
Don't do it Jahn...It's a trap
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